“Last time I looked, china was already outsourcing its labor to even cheaper markets (africa, for example).”
Isn’t it great that everyone is starting to share in the wealth generation process?
…but just yesterday, an acquaintance in one of those “Right To Work” states lost one job on false pretenses by the employer…
That’s the point, the employer does not (and should not) need any “pretense” to eliminate an employee. It’s his business, and his money, he can hire or fire whoever he wants at any time (as long as he complies with labor laws). If someone is in a job that can be done better/cheaper by someone else, he has a career problem and needs to find a way to make himself more valuable, or he needs to start cleaning out his desk. Put yourself in the employers position, would you want the government telling you who you had to hire and who you had to retain? Would you hire anyone who thought they needed a union to look out for their interests?
It’s inevitable, we can no longer depend on accidents of geography to determine who has the greatest wealth; a good thing in the long term.
I do remember a colleague who had a Ford station wagon with the “big eight engine” at that time.He bought a Simca from his friendly Chrysler dealer and parked the Ford. The Simca was cheap to buy and run, but unreliable! So, being a handy kind of guy he bought a second Simca for his wife, and used the Ford wagon when one of the Simcas broke down.
We recently bougth a complete dining room suite seating 8 for $4200, imported from China. This suite is made in China with wood imported from Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand or some other tropical country.
The equivalent US price for this suite would be just under $10,000; more if Ethan Allen or Drexel sold it. When we lived in Malysia we priced a similar set locally made form local wood, with slightly higer wage costs, and decided not to buy it.
It came to $4500 but the shipping costs home by the factory would have been nearly $3000 at that time. This amount would be less if shipped by large container to a dealer, of course!
So, draw your own conclusion; a non-union furniture plant in Michigan or the Southern states has a hard time competing with $1.50/hour labor and virtually no fringe benefits.
Since this thread strayed to “right to work” issues I ask. Would you like to see a ban on the hiring of “scabs”? Unions have long sought this ban,this hiring is permitted by the Wagner Act.
Most people just want cheap, convenient transportation. They drive only because it meets those needs better than public transportation. Expensive gas tends to push them off the road. This makes room for those of us who enjoy driving and are willing to make the effort required to do it well.
"Jeremy; the cost of shipping a high value item from China in a containership is peanuts compared to the saving in labor cost of about 90% in its manufacture"
It’s just not peanuts anymore. I’m hearing about more and more jobs coming back because it costs so much to ship things from China.
I've been hearing that some of the IT jobs are also returning to the US (I hope so, maybe I can use my Comp Sci degree for something). 1) IT jobs in India have inflated, I've read they now are wanting $8-10/hour. 2) There've traditionally been quality control problems, both from outsourcing cos hiring people who can't really code, and due to communications problems involving specifications of what exactly the project in question is suppsoed to do. (Companies didn't used to care because.. well. they're cheapskates, they didn't care if the quality was crap for $2/hour..) 3) There's now even cheaper places to do work, in some cases the Indian jobs have been re-outsourced out to them.. but they aren't English speakers which causes "communications problems" to become "no communications at all". US companies are starting to come to grips that it's not worth getting buggy code and IT work back for $10/hour and are bringing back these jobs to the US now.
"With the big 3 on the ropes I can see a Democrtic government putting in high tariffs on non-NAFTA car imports; i.e. those from Korea, Japan, China and Europe. The result might be more Korean, European, and Japanese manufacture in the US."
They already do. Hyundai, Toyota, and Honda at least make lots of cars in the US; (perhaps more than the big 3, since they have plants in Mexico).
Since small cars are going to outsell big ones, I can see Toyota’s Yaris, Honda Fit, Suzuki Swift, etc. being made in the US, Mexico or Canada to get a tariff and transportation advantage.
High value items occupying little volume will likely stay overseas forever, especially since the design talent is already over there.
I can tell you 1 thing I like about the expensive gas. If I were to sell my Civic, I’d be able to get more than book value for it.
WHOA! Reasonableness! Mature perspective! I’m not qualified to talk about the difference between American and European methods of handling social costs (I imagine that we pay about the same amount, though, just in different ways). But I have to agree with you, Jeff. Expensive gas is a PROBLEM, not a disaster, and certainly not a nefarious plan by Saudis or oil companies to enslave us or something. Americans used to be good at solving problems.
i dont think all of that is or ever will happen i know i dont use less gas and my work still has us work 5 days a week and the cops in my area are just writeing more fines and yes a lot of people i know dont drive there cars or trucks as much as befor but now they all have hondas or harleys or other bikes
I don’t think the single mom or dad making $8.00 an hour is very thankful for it. Just think, an entire paycheck or close to it will go to the fuel tank.
I remember too, too much of all of this. Yes, we actually had the Renault Dauphine (so light that two men could pick it up and turn it around or set it on our front porch), the Corvair (oops), the Rambler American, etc. I also remember the 70’s ordeal and how someone on the East Coast came across a warehouse full of forgotten, brand new, moth-balled, micro-sized Dhiatsus, I think (cars, pickups & vans) and was selling them like hotcakes for what seems like $1,000-$1,500 each (I actually liked those designs). I also remember those really early, original (micro-tiny) Hondas that only went about 70 mph max (with the big black gaskets around the rear, hatch window). They were so lightweight that they disappeared after 2 years… before Honda reappeared on the US scene with its army of bigger, faster super compacts and have been here since.
In the early 70’s, I remember Mother Earth News and Popular Mechanics continuously warned people that alternative-fueled homes and vehicles HAD to be developed (quickly) and they constantly published the prototypes and plans of those as fast as they came out… but almost everyone ignored them (even the amazingly practical and affordable “retro-fits” of ultra fine atomizing fuel pump jets/nozzles that multiplied your gas mileage by several times). Who cared… gas was cheap again. Today, a lot of people are now trying to locate and dig up many, many of those old publications for that reason.
Oddly enough, Brazil was paying close attention. Over 30 years ago they started making ethanol out of sugar cane. Today, there are over 35,000 such stations there selling “pure” ethanol from sugar cane (zero oil) and all gasoline sold there has 25% ethanol from sugar cane in it. Turns out to have been a brilliant choice for a nation. This unique type of ethanol has more than 6 times the energy output per unit as ethanol made from corn, it’s mass production hasn’t hurt their food production or even their rain forests. It burns much cleaner than corn, as well. Today, it costs about $5 to fill up your tank there. On top of that, there has apparently also been a recent mega-oil find offshore there and they have the 3rd or 4th highest quantity of uranium in the world… clearly positioned now to become a mega-power on the world energy scene this century, it would seem. (You can check out the recent Brazil Rising story for the details.)
That said to say, of course that most of us (as individuals), our government and the powerful oil/auto lobbies are all together to blame for something that so many experts in the 70’s predicted would absolutely, definitely happen in our not-to-distant future. I understand gas prices are now thought to likely top out somewhere around $15.60/gallon whether people like it or not and regardless the certain (limited) devastation that will cause for a while on a spoiled society way too selfish and near-sighted to acknowledge the howling wolf at the door for 30 years. Oh well.
Fortunately,alternative fuel/vehicle innovations are now the hottest investment market in this country… three decades too late, but at least it is finally happening. With a big bag of hurt along the way, in 3-4 years we will likely, finally begin seeing the best of what our innovative minds here have to offer. In another 3-4 years, hopefully it have some of the desired effect across the board for us.
What’s really going to be interesting (encouraging) will be seeing what we all look like as we (along with the rest of the world) come out the other side. I suspect we will be on the way to becoming a substantially healthier, stronger, leaner people and nation. I suspect we will have experienced a much needed correction to our “5 decade long spree” of mindless consumerism, it having been rethought and our lives drastically revamped for the better.
I hope we can keep the big picture in mind this time and start intentionally restructuring our lives to see beyond ones consisting of little more than living on credit and pursuing short-term gains and instant gratification.
I hope.
gb
I remember too, too much of all of what some others have alluded to. Yes, we actually owned a late 50’s Renault Dauphine (so light that two men could pick it up and turn it around or set it on our front porch), then the Corvair (oops), then the Rambler American, etc. I also remember the 70’s ordeal and how someone on the East Coast came across a warehouse full of forgotten, brand new, moth-balled, micro-sized Dhiatsus, I think (cars, pickups & vans) and was selling them like hotcakes for what seems like $1,000-$1,500 each (I actually liked those designs). I also remember those really early, original (micro-tiny) Hondas that only went about 70 mph max (with the big black gaskets around the rear, hatch window). They were so lightweight that they disappeared after 2 years… before Honda reappeared on the US scene with its army of bigger, faster super compacts and have been here since.
In the early 70’s, I remember Mother Earth News and Popular Mechanics continuously warned people that alternative-fueled homes and vehicles HAD to be developed (quickly) and they constantly published the prototypes and plans of those as fast as they came out… but almost everyone ignored them (even the amazingly practical and affordable “retro-fits” of ultra fine atomizing fuel pump jets/nozzles that multiplied your gas mileage by several times). Who cared… gas was cheap again. Today, a lot of people are now trying to locate and dig up many, many of those old publications for that reason.
Oddly enough, Brazil was paying close attention. Over 30 years ago they started making ethanol out of sugar cane. Today, there are over 35,000 such stations there selling “pure” ethanol from sugar cane (zero oil) and all gasoline sold there has 25% ethanol from sugar cane in it. Turns out to have been a brilliant choice for a nation. This unique type of ethanol has more than 6 times the energy output per unit as ethanol made from corn, it’s mass production hasn’t hurt their food production or even their rain forests. It burns much cleaner than corn, as well. Today, it costs about $5 to fill up your tank there. On top of that, there has apparently also been a recent mega-oil find offshore there and they have the 3rd or 4th highest quantity of uranium in the world… clearly positioned now to become a mega-power on the world energy scene this century, it would seem. (You can check out the recent Brazil Rising story for the details.)
That said to say, of course that most of us (as individuals), our government and the powerful oil/auto lobbies are all together to blame for something that so many experts in the 70’s predicted would absolutely, definitely happen in our not-to-distant future. I understand gas prices are now thought to likely top out somewhere around $15.60/gallon whether people like it or not and regardless the certain (limited) devastation that will cause for a while on a spoiled society way too selfish and near-sighted to acknowledge the howling wolf at the door for 30 years. Oh well.
Fortunately,alternative fuel/vehicle innovations are now the hottest investment market in this country… three decades too late, but at least it is finally happening. With a big bag of hurt along the way, in 3-4 years we will likely, finally begin seeing the best of what our innovative minds here have to offer. In another 3-4 years, hopefully it have some of the desired effect across the board for us.
What’s really going to be interesting (encouraging) will be seeing what we all look like as we (along with the rest of the world) come out the other side. I suspect we will be on the way to becoming a substantially healthier, stronger, leaner people and nation. I suspect we will have experienced a much needed correction to our “5 decade long spree” of mindless consumerism, it having been rethought and our lives drastically revamped for the better.
I hope we can keep the big picture in mind this time and start intentionally restructuring our lives to see beyond ones consisting of little more than living on credit and pursuing short-term gains and instant gratification.
I hope.
gb
I think if you are trying to support a family on $8/hour, you probably stopped driving long before gas got to $4/gallon and found another way to commute.
IMHO, one place where we have fallen behind even more than in alternative energy is in our education system. When I started my college teaching career back in 1965, the vast majority of students had a healthy respect for education. Many students today believe they are entitled to a degree just by paying their tuition and showing up for class half the time. Yet, today’s students are just as capable as those students of 43 years ago. It’s the mind set that they have. As a result, we have a “dumbing down” of courses.
Unfortunately, some of these students have squeaked through and are running (or ruining) our companies. When engineers like Ed Cole became CEO’s of corporations like General Motors, we did have engineering advancements. Too many companies today are run by those who only have business training and don’t understand the product being produced.
I think that setting higher standards in our educational system would make a big difference in the long range ability of this nation to solve its problems. When the United States got caught with its pants down back in 1956 and the Russians launched Sputnik, we immediately went to work to improve the science and mathematics education. I hope today’s crisis in energy will do the same thing.
Very well said…the path of least resistance is always the easiest and preferred in the USA, it seems.
The first people to feel the effect are the poor. Then the middle class (those of us still left). Most of the upper class won’t be effected by it at all. It’ll have to go well past $10 in order for many people to change their driving habits. And by then the Poor will be out of work…sold their cars…won’t be able to heat their apartments…won’t be able to buy food…number of people on welfare will drastically INCREASE.
The last 20 years or so have proven that people DIDN’T WANT CHEAP, CONVENIENT TRANSPORTATION! It’s been available all along, but consumers allowed themselves to be talked into things they don’t need. As long as financing and cheap leasing was available, and gas cheap, they out-SUVed each other.
The time has now come to pay the piper, and long distance commuting in a gas guzzler is no longer feasible. So, of necessity we are going back to what we should have been driving in the first place. Consumer Reports has been no help in this respect; they always rate a larger version of a previously sensible car “much better and roomier”. They rate both the new RAV4 V6 and the new Subaru Forester highly and much improved; both are uneconomical machines.
Years ago they stated a standard US familily car had to accommodate 6 male adults and a weekend’s luggage. Some family! Some weeekend!