@auto-owner - In the last two weeks of my travels on the NYS Thruway and around town I saw 10 vehicles off of the road in ditches or medians. Nine of them were AWD or 4WD.
^
Yup!
Overconfidence/driving too fast for conditions/simply being a jackass will do people in, simply because they don’t comprehend that having AWD/4WD does not make you invincible and does not allow you to violate the laws of physics.
…and speaking of jackasses who drive too fast for conditions (and who may well also be drunk), take a look at this compilation of Russian dash-cam videos:
@VDCdriver That’s priceless! Notice how many jackass TRUCK drivers there are; those guys supposedly got proper training and get job reviews.
When my wife (who has dealt with Russians) saw the video she said half those truck drivers were probably drunk, an endemic situation in Russia. The gap between male and female life expectancy in Russia is the highest in the world! The average Russian male has the same life expectancy as male Nigerian.
^
Yes, I have heard that the incidence of drunkenness in Russia is…astronomical.
I think that a very large percentage of drivers in that country have dash cams simply because there are so many accidents caused by these crazy drunks, and having a video record amounts to self-defense when making a claim.
This conversation has gotten off track. But thanks so much to all those who offered some great advice on the reliability of Subarus vs Audis. I’m still looking and much will depend on finding the right car, without too many miles and with good service records.
ALWAYS consider…service !
In this small town I would buy NIETHER .
If faced with a must buy of either of those that I can’t get serviced here…I’d default to the Subaru.
Service should be a major consideration with a new car that comes with a warranty, and that may need warranty-related service.
Every time I read a post from somebody who says that they hesitate to go to a dealership for a warranty-related issue because the closest one is (pick one) 40 miles away, or 70 miles away, or 100 miles away, all that comes to mind is…What were you thinking when you bought that car?
I am very lucky to have a small Subaru franchise located ~6 miles from my house. Even though the family that owned the franchise for a few decades wound up selling the business, even the new staff knows me by name and treats me like gold, and I rarely have to go there as my cars have been close to bullet-proof.
However, if I had to drive a very long distance to reach a dealership for any brand of car, I would immediately cross that brand off from my list of prospective purchases.
dagosa
If all you need an AWD car to do is get up your driveway so you don’t have to shovel it, I understand where you are comming from. 
My driveway plus some of the hills around here. It’s impossible to either leave or return to this hovel without driving uphill at some point.
Snow tires actually help AWD cars accelerate, corner and brake a whole lot better then all season tires in snow and ON WET pavement below 40 degrees.
I agree. My point was that AWD (even with OEM tires) is more effective for climbing slick hills–and not getting stuck–than FWD with snow tires, in my experience.
But, you trying to explain away the benefits of snow tires with AWD because you don’t use them…huh ?
No. I said as far as I can tell almost no one does it.
Do you actually think your car stops and corners while coasting better with AWD without snow tires then a fwd car with snow tires ?
No. I know full well that AWD is about going, not stopping or turning. I understand how it works.
VDCdriver
In regard to dagosa’s suggestion of pairing an AWD vehicle with winter tires, auto-owner replied, "But who actually does that?"
Well, me for one.
While I now have the luxury of being able to stay off the roads until they have been plowed and salted, during my working years I used Michelin’s excellent winter tires on my Outbacks.
So you switched the tires on your AWD each spring and fall?
What you–and a lot of other people–have failed to recognize is the biggest advantage of winter tires, namely their ability to stop your vehicle in a far shorter distance, as compared to so-called “all-season” tires.
No. I never mentioned stopping or turning.
Just curious - what part of the country are you in? For severe snow and ice in hilly areas, there’s nothing better than AWD + good winter tires. Less severe areas don’t need them.
I might add that I do believe there is a 2WD configuration (with snow tires) that can equal AWD (with OEM tires) for going in the slick; RWD with limited slip. Not some inferior limited slip, that just alternates the torque from side to side when spinning, but the sort of differential we used to call Positraction. That set-up would really go in the snow.
texases
Just curious - what part of the country are you in? For severe snow and ice in hilly areas, there’s nothing better than AWD + good winter tires. Less severe areas don’t need them.
I’m in souteast Iowa, and of course I agree that the better the tires, the better the performance, with any sort of driveline. But again, as far as I can tell, practically no one bothers with switching seasonal tires on their AWD.
Agree @ bloody knuckles It happens lots around here. Poor judgement when driving starts when you assume that awd is the magic potion for bad weather problems while forgetting that it’s the tires that are the conduit for any advantage they give you. If you don’t match your tires to the conditions, just forget you have awd and drive like a two wheel drive car… And slow down. The awd emblem
in snow and ice is a facade without proper tires for the conditions.
“So you switched the tires on your AWD each spring and fall?”
Ummmm…yes.
I thought that this was pretty obvious, but I guess that it wasn’t.
And, by marking the tires before de-mounting them, I was able to easily accomplish tire rotation when re-mounting them.
@autoowner. " practically no one bothers switching all season tires"
Southeast Iowa
Well, there is your answer. A quick look shows most cities in your area average less then 40 inches a year. We just recently hit the 120 inch mark with more snow to come. I don’t expect lower NE uses many cars with snow tires either with similar less then 40 levels. You can probably count very deep snow day travel on one hand per year.
I have a vehicle with a limited slip and locking rear differential. With snow tires, it does very well indeed. It still is no comparison to 4 wd with snow tires.
To me, it is completely illogical to campare too different drive trains in snow while handicapping one with inadequate tires. You might as well debate which team in football is better while making one play in spikes and the other team in flip flops .
dagosa
I have a vehicle with a limited slip and locking rear differential. With snow tires, it does very well indeed. It still is no comparison to 4 wd with snow tires.
I agree, and acknowledge that this tangent has been run into the ground, and almost regret originally taking issue with: bloody_knuckles-- If snow traction is an issue get a set of winter tires and you won’t miss AWD at all.
though I do stand by my response.
And at least I’ve learned that in some places people actually do switch seasonal tires on their AWDs, even if none of them live anywhere near me.
If I had the time, energy, and money to take full advantage of every snow-going aid, I’d build an AWD with locking front, rear, and center differentials, a foot and a half of clearance, studded snow tires, and four wheel steering for good measure, and then let winter bring it on.
;-))))
We’ve had 64 inches so far this winter and I’m glad we put on our winter tires in last October. Tomorrow we’re going to a mountain lodge and will likely get a lot of fresh snow. The Michelin X-ICE tires will do us good.
@auto-owner - I stand by my original statement. While my AWD friends may have a little more go (and that is debatable) I have a LOT more stop and turn. I drive my cars in some pretty mountainous terrain with lots of deep snow and icy conditions. FWD with four good winter tires has NEVER let me down. I get up the hills and through the snow just as well as my friends in their Outbacks with all season tires and I stop and turn WAY better than they do. I drive in an area that averages almost 100 inches of snow per year and commute to a city almost 90 miles away that averages over 115 inches of snow per year. I have been doing it for 20 years and feel somewhat qualified to speak intelligently on this issue. I wouldn’t trade my minivan or Mazda 6, both with winter tires, for anyone else’s AWD or 4WD vehicle with all season tires (and I have driven my wife’s 4WD F-150 in the snow so I know how it handles).
@Docnick - I love the Xi3’s that I put on my new Mazda6. They are the best winter tires I have ever used.