Hybrids too quiet?

Fit them with a little model airplane engine without a muffler?

I’ve had a similar experience to your coworkers’. I was walking along the road in a state park last summer and a Prius came up behind me. I didn’t even hear it until it was practically on top of me, and I didn’t realize it was a car until I turned around because it was only making a faint whining noise. I can definitely see why they’d be a danger to the blind community, although it’ll be interesting to see what sort of noise is added.

A new market for the down load of cell phone ring tones. I think they should all sound like ice cream trucks.

Well, I for one hope that no one takes this idea seriously. It’s not that hybrids in electric mode, or pure electrics, don’t make any sound. They most certainly do. It’s just that people aren’t used to the sounds they do make. Yes, they are quieter, but tires on the road and a certain amount of wind noise is inevitable. Once enough of these cars are on the streets people will come to associate the sounds they do make with automobiles. Right now, our brains tend to filter out the non-dangerous sounds and since these don’t sound like a car with a running engine our brains just don’t alert us. If we get to a point where electric vehicles are more common we’ll start hearing them just fine.

The idea of noisemakers on quiet cars reminds me of the old turn of the (20th) century laws requiring a man with a red flag to walk ten paces ahead and another ten paces behind any automobile. They were dangerous and might spook the horses you know :wink:

I’m sure there’s tons of Mickey Mantel and Babe Ruth rookie cards out there for everyone of these cars. :stuck_out_tongue:

Gosh, assuming the driver is looking out the front window, it seems there shouldn’t be much problem. So, I wonder if there is a real danger, or if people get frightened when it appears without warning. I mean, do we assume a driver is going to run down anyone in front of them?

No, we can’t assume that a driver of a hybrid is going to run down someone in front of him/her, but the fact remains that pedestrians are hit by cars daily and many of these incidents are the result of driver inattention. Just as a driver needs to drive defensively, a pedestrian needs to walk defensively when crossing a street.

But, when a vehicle is silent (or at least unusually quiet), it is that much harder for a pedestrian to guard against being hit by a car driven by an inattentive driver. And, if the pedestrian is blind, major problems could result.

I agree 100%. The issue isn’t that hybrids are too quiet. In fact, that should be desired in all cars. The issue is that the people operating them are not paying proper attention.

If this law passes, it will only lend credence to the stupid “loud pipes save lives” myth.

I am not so sure I would call “loud pipes save lives” a stupid myth. It is true that there is no scientific evidence to prove that soud pipes save lives, but there no scientific evidence that proves that loud pipes don’t save lives either.

This is the kind of debate that has been long over due…cars too quite. Hopefully the next will be; they don’t use enough energy to “fuel” the economy; and the local underground gasoline storage tanks need “Stabil” added to it because the turn over is too infrequent. Ya gotta love it !!!

Mickey Mantle you rookie !! Mantel was a talk show host or bald comedian.

Actually, I read a preliminary study that help prompted this law. It is not just out of whole cloth, or a segment of people barking loudly. The study I read was conducted by a safety group for the blind that held an informal study with a couple of groups of blind people. They were grouped into a parking lot, and different hybrid models were used. According to the observations, none of the participants heard any one the cars, even though all of the cars were driving constant circles around them. One was quoted as saying, “Has the test started yet?”, and this was after the cars had completed about 2 laps.

The jokes and skepticism are understandable, but just think about it. In a typical urban and suburban setting, there is a large load of ambient noise to hide the very little noise a rolling car without the engine running would make. Kids on bikes analogy fall flat, because most kids are anything but quiet when playing. The bill basically funds a study over a legitimate safety issue. If the addition of a low-level buzzer, low enough not to be heard by the driver or passengers, but distinct enough to be noticed within 25 yards of a moving car would not hurt anybody or anybody’s pocketbook.

Just remember, they added beeper’s to commercial vehicles so you would have an audible warning when something big, and probably blind was about to back up nearby. This has resulted in a major drop in accidents involving these big trucks, pedestrians and workers.

Maybe all hybrids should come with 20" sub-woofers that constantly play an annoying base line that can be easily heard/felt by everyone within 50 feet.

The California Vehicle Code states that it is the responsibility of the vehicle drive to see, avoid, and yield right of way to pedestrians on the sidewalk, side of the road, and at marked and unmarked crosswalks. A separate item in the Code addresses the requirement to absolutely yield right of way to anyone displaying a red and white cane. Most drivers meet this responsibility. It is the other 10% that a pedestrian has to watch out for.

I, too, have been startled by the stealthy arrival of a Hybrid at a sidewalk driveway. But, being an attentive pedestrian, I always have my head on a swivel, keep aware of my surroundings; and yield to all vehicles that appear aggressive or distracted, i.e. encroachers on marked crosswalks and those with cell phones held to their ear. Hearing a car nearby is not going to tell you if that car is ready to launch or doesn’t see you. If I were a blind person in any medium to large city, I would only walk with a sighted and hearing enabled person accompaning.

JMHO

How about some kind of a “chirp” alarm, both front and rear? It could be set up on, say, 5-second intervals to chirp for two seconds or so, a total of 7-second cycles, then repeat the 5-second delay onto another 2-second “chirp” cycle. This would somehow be connected to the vehicle to operate only when the vehicle is on electric and/or is going 10 mph or less. Maybe I should have kept this to myself, build a prototype, get it patented, and sit back and collect my royalties. By the time I get all of that done, wanna bet that at least three companies will have something like this?

But then the hippies would hafta compete with the punk kids for the cars. :stuck_out_tongue:

Montel, not Mantel. :stuck_out_tongue:

June 23, 2008, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration held a hearing on this subject and the public record is available at www.regulations.gov by searching for “NHTSA-2008-0108-0020” for the opposition research. Some facts: (1) the Prius has the same pedestrian accident rate as ordinary vehicles; (2) no blind has been killed by a Prius; (3) an average of 5 blind pedestrians out of 4,700 pedestrian deaths occur each year; and (4) noise maker cars already kill 4,700 pedestrians per year and more noise, adding to the caucaphony (aka., Boston streets) would not make anyone safer.

Near as we can tell, there have been 4 billion Prius miles since they went on sale in 2000. During that time there have been 110 fatal accidents in which a Prius was one of the vehicles. There have been 11 pedestrian accidents with just a Prius. We ca not find evidence of a Prius, hybrid hazard in the USA. That is what the NHTSA told us in a Freedom of Information Act request to get their chart from Essie Wagner’s presentation at the hearing.

These noise maker laws, H.R. 734 and S.841, are not supported by accident data. A placebo, they draw attention away from effective, anti-collision systems such as are found on the Lexus 250h, SAAB and BMW that detect not only pedestrians but activate the brakes, automatically to save everyone, including the 4,700 who die each year with the sound of an engine just before they are crushed to death.

It is important to contact your Congressman about H.R. 734 and S. 841 in opposition. We need effective pedestrian safety systems not this noise maker nonsense. After all, a faux noise maker is no better than an engine when killing a pedestrian.

Bob Wilson

Because a back-up camera is more effective when in reverse and an automatic pedestrian detecting camera or radar is better in forward driving situations. But a sound system also needs to deal with pedestrians engaged in active conversations, cell phone calls, iPods, and the deaf.

The problem is sound based systems already kill 4,700 pedestrian. You are proposing the same, deadly killing system we already have, not one that is engineered to overcome human inattention or other failings.

Bob Wilson

Where are the bodies? Where is the accident data that shows this is a real hazard?

We know 4,700 pedestrians die each year with engine noise in their ears. There is nothing about a faux noise maker that makes them any safer.

Bob Wilson